WATCH: The Future Of Project 2025 in the Trump Administration

0:00 | Most importantly, the forgotten ordinary
American has won.

0:03 | Because what really won was an emphasis
on common sense solutions to problems.

0:08 | And really not that at Heritage we feel
either entitled or defensive about

0:13 | Project 2025.
We just are resolute because it’s now a

0:17 | policy making season.
This is something that we’ve done for 44

0:20 | years, since 1980 with Ronald Reagan.
We understand that, of course, President

0:24 | elect Trump and Vice President elect
Vance will make all the decisions.

0:27 | Having said that, Project 2025 is the
single greatest, biggest scope of

0:34 | personnel and policy work that’s ever
happened.

0:36 | And we’re very proud of it.
It represents several dozen million

0:39 | Americans.
If you think about the 110 organizations

0:42 | who are part of it.
Once again, totally up to the president

0:45 | elect and vice president elect.
We operate in service to them and to the

0:48 | American people.
But ultimately, to get to the heart of

0:50 | your question, Joe, the American people
have won here and we look forward to

0:53 | playing whatever role formally or
informally, that we can to support them.

0:57 | Well, I just.
Did you anticipate the backlash?

0:59 | You mentioned Ronald Reagan.
The mandate for leadership was something

1:02 | that was actually pretty well received
as a policy paper.

1:05 | It helped to put heritage on the map.
Was this supposed to be another version

1:09 | of that or sort of a quiet policy paper
that you would provide whatever the

1:14 | incoming administration would be?
We wanted to insert substantive policy

1:19 | conversations into the political season.
We did not anticipate that the radical

1:24 | left, which couldn’t run on its record
because it’s terrible, would actually

1:27 | use that as the as the bogeyman and
succeed in doing that.

1:31 | And look, we made a tactical error in
not responding in the first six weeks to

1:35 | their total mischaracterizations.
That’s on us.

1:38 | But ultimately, the mischaracterizations
are on the radical left.

1:41 | That’s a tactical lesson that we’ve
learned.

1:43 | And and we’ll never repeat that.
But that doesn’t mean that the

1:46 | substantive part of the work, the
policies, the personnel database, which

1:50 | has 20,000 Americans who want to serve
not only in presidential

1:54 | administrations, but also in
gubernatorial administrations, is

1:57 | somehow something to be ashamed of.
In fact, quite the opposite.

2:00 | We’re very proud of it.
Having said that, it is very much

2:03 | designed, as all of our previous
projects have been designed, which is to

2:07 | be of service.
And if I had to predict the next

2:11 | administration is going to be filled
with excellent men and women, not just

2:15 | because of the work we did, but most
importantly because of the great acumen

2:18 | of the president elect and vice
president elect and the team that

2:21 | they’re already assembling.
We learned one name just over the

2:25 | weekend.
It’s Tom Homan, who’s going to be the

2:27 | border czar, as Donald Trump is
referring to it.

2:29 | That was from a post untruth.
I don’t think that’s a position that

2:33 | requires Senate confirmation when it
comes to being a czar, whatever that is.

2:39 | But he was one of the authors of 2025.
So is the winter over?

2:43 | It may be.
The Tom Homan is also a visiting fellow

2:46 | at Heritage, is a good friend.
I was texting me earlier congratulating

2:49 | him on that.
And look, the most important thing,

2:51 | forget Tom’s professional affiliation.
Forget that he was a project 2025

2:56 | author.
The most important thing is that he is

2:59 | aligned not just with President Trump,
but also with the American people who

3:03 | want to bring an end to the ridiculous
disorder on the southern border.

3:07 | Tom is going to do a great job there.
In other words, Joe, neither today nor a

3:11 | year from today am I going to be sitting
in my office at Heritage, sort of

3:15 | keeping score about who’s in the
administration and not?

3:17 | That’s not why we do what we do.
We exist every day to be of service to

3:21 | the American people and to the
administration, for that matter.

3:24 | If the Democrats had won, and although
it would have been very surprising for

3:28 | them to have called us and say, you’ve
got a name for so-and-so agency, we

3:31 | would have done that too, to this.
This is the whole point about the work

3:34 | that has understood us.
Understood.

3:36 | Although we had heard from the
transition team that no one from Project

3:38 | 2025 was invited.
Now we’ve got home and that apparently

3:42 | was not the case.
Have you talked to Donald Trump since he

3:44 | won?
We’ve not spoken yet, but I anticipate

3:47 | that we will.
I mean, he’s got to be pretty keyed up

3:49 | on what Heritage is offering here.
He was on the record when the team was

3:55 | trying to distance itself from you.
I have no idea who is behind it.

3:59 | He put on X.
I disagree with some of the things

4:01 | they’re saying and some of the things
they’re saying are absolutely ridiculous

4:05 | and abysmal.
Do you have a sense of what he likes or

4:08 | doesn’t like here?
I think the key thing is that President

4:12 | Trump saw the branding as a liability in
the political season.

4:16 | But I also would anticipate moving
forward that the president elect and

4:21 | vice president elect, with whom we
maintain great relationships, will also

4:25 | understand that it’s the policy making
season, that Heritage and all of the

4:29 | other groups are a part of our project
are built for.

4:32 | And if they’re looking, for example, as
President Trump said this morning, to

4:35 | dismantle the US Department of
Education, we know exactly where you can

4:39 | go for that plan.
Totally up to him about whether he uses

4:42 | the plan.
Yeah, but that’s that’s what I’m talking

4:44 | about, Joe.
When I mention that great ideas and

4:46 | great people rise to the top, the all of
the political calculations of the last

4:51 | few months, which were very
understandable and about which we have

4:55 | no hard feelings are in the past.
We’re now in the policymaking season.

4:59 | We think that.
This is the beginning of a golden era of

5:01 | conservative reform.
I will say that because the work of

5:05 | Project 2025 represents the conservative
movement, it would be very difficult for

5:11 | anybody to implement policies on
education, on the border, on taxation,

5:17 | without at least consulting those ideas
and people.

5:20 | That’s not some arrogant or hubristic
comment on our part.

5:23 | That’s just the nature of how
policymaking works.

5:25 | Well, so you’re back and you’re back
with a new book, Dawn’s Early Light.

5:28 | It was originally supposed to release in
September.

5:32 | Was it your decision to postpone the
release?

5:34 | What went into that?
100%.

5:35 | My decision.
And that was because as president of the

5:37 | Heritage Foundation and Heritage Action
for America, I’m a busy guy like a lot

5:42 | of people are.
You can relate to that yourself.

5:44 | And at Heritage Action for America,
which is our 501 C4 and more political

5:48 | arm.
We were busy registering almost 100,000

5:50 | voters in Arizona and Georgia, doing the
appropriate ballot, chasing to get them

5:54 | to the polls and succeeded in doing
that.

5:56 | And we just thought it would be better
in terms of using my time for me to be

6:00 | zealously focused on getting
conservative policy makers in a position

6:04 | to have a good conversation and and
delay the release of the book until this

6:09 | month.
So you didn’t think it would jeopardize

6:10 | Donald Trump’s chances of being elected
or other Republicans based on what you

6:14 | were hearing about 2025?
No.

6:16 | And I understand the the question was
very fair, but not at all.

6:20 | In fact, if you get around to reading
the book, you will see the book is a

6:24 | reflection of of Trumpism.
I mean, this is really where the

6:27 | conservative movement in America are
going.

6:30 | And I think because the book is far more
oriented around ideas and where we take

6:35 | the movement, the time for that
conversation is after the election.

6:38 | Well, I’ll tell you, it’s really
interesting because I wish I had more

6:42 | time with the book, but I did spend the
weekend with it.

6:44 | And you write, For America to flourish
again.

6:47 | The institutions you talk about don’t
need to be reformed.

6:50 | They need to be burned.
And you have a list of them, burn them

6:52 | to the ground.
Every Ivy League college, the FBI, the

6:56 | New York Times, the National Institute
of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, the

7:00 | Department of Education, which you
mentioned, 80% of Catholic higher

7:04 | education, BlackRock.
The Loudoun County Public School system,

7:10 | the Boy Scouts of America, Bill and
Melinda Gates Foundation, the World

7:12 | Economic Forum, the Chinese Communist
Party, and the National Endowment for

7:16 | Democracy.
Do you see all of these as being on the

7:19 | same side of something?
Is this the unit party you talk about?

7:23 | They are there.
And what’s important context for the

7:27 | list you there that you have?
There is the metaphor that I use of a

7:31 | controlled burn.
So obviously, we’re talking about

7:33 | metaphorically regenerating these these
institutions.

7:36 | But what all of those institutions have
in common is that they have forgotten

7:41 | the importance of the everyday America
and how so much of the work that they do

7:45 | is oriented around concentrating power
in either Washington or New York.

7:49 | There are good people in some of those
institutions and in Washington, in New

7:53 | York.
But what the American people told us

7:55 | last week is that it’s time for power to
be devolved from those elite

7:59 | institutions back to the states and back
to the American people.

8:02 | My book places an emphasis on
revitalizing federalism because that

8:06 | gives the people closest to power the
opportunity to actually have a say in

8:10 | their government.
By the way, I think that’s what we’re

8:12 | going to see in the next few years.
BlackRock Larry Fink Sports.

8:15 | TRUMP Right.
BlackRock and Larry Fink may have

8:19 | supported President Trump, but before
that decision, which I would just

8:23 | speculators is largely political,
underwrote a dramatic reorientation of

8:29 | capital from being focused on making
profit, which I know you and me and your

8:33 | audience are about to a socialized idea
of ESG.

8:38 | And I’m really glad that one of the
great things that has happened in terms

8:41 | of policy, in fact, one of the things we
talk about and project 2025 and and

8:45 | heritage is undermining the ridiculous
work of Larry Fink in BlackRock.

8:50 | So it’s ESG, not China investment that
turned you.

8:54 | It’s both when it comes to and they’re
very much related as no doubt.

8:56 | No.
Well, no, I don’t actually.

8:58 | Well, in fact, if you let’s just take
the E and ESG and the environmental

9:03 | emphasis that actually favors the
Chinese.

9:06 | I see.
Understood.

9:09 | So here’s the thing that strikes me
after spending some time with your book.

9:13 | You and I are from really different
places.

9:16 | You grew up in Lafayette, Louisiana,
which is a great town, by the way.

9:19 | And I’ve been there more than once.
I want you to know I’m from a place

9:22 | called Putnam, Connecticut.
May as well be from two different

9:26 | planets.
My town, I think, was smaller than

9:28 | yours, though.
And while you grew up and saw the big

9:31 | oil bust and what happened to families
and to households in Lafayette, for me

9:38 | it was the textile mills, right?
We had all of those in these mill towns

9:41 | in Connecticut.
They all closed when I was a kid, when

9:44 | the 1980s got there.
Then the shopping malls opened and all

9:47 | the main street stores closed.
Unemployment went through the roof.

9:51 | Morale went down.
Very similar cultural impact, even

9:56 | though we’re talking about massively
different industries, different

10:00 | geography, different values, I suppose,
between a New England family and

10:04 | Louisiana, but actually maybe more
similar than you think.

10:07 | You have French-Canadian ancestors.
I do, too.

10:10 | So we have the same scenario here, and
there are different potential solutions,

10:15 | right?
Joe Biden’s been talking about reshoring

10:17 | and friend shoring and trying to bring
jobs back that way.

10:20 | We had the CHIPS Act.
What does Project 2025 do?

10:24 | What will Donald Trump do to restore the
local economies in communities like the

10:30 | ones you and I are from?
I can’t tell you how much.

10:33 | Joe, I appreciate your question.
In fact, there’s no doubt we have a lot

10:36 | more similarities and differences.
Right?

10:38 | We all do, actually.
And they don’t talk about it.

10:40 | And that’s and that’s the point of the
book, too.

10:42 | But thank you for that, for that
framing.

10:44 | But to the heart of your question, which
I love, actually President Biden has

10:47 | talked about that, I think he probably
could have done more in his three and a

10:50 | half years.
I don’t I don’t say that to be a jerk.

10:52 | I say that that I think he could have
done more.

10:53 | But I give him credit for saying the
right things.

10:56 | I think the CHIPS Act is well
intentioned, but there are some details

10:59 | we’ve got to get right going down the
road.

11:01 | But the ultimately where the policy
emphasis needs to be is a looking at the

11:07 | tradeoffs.
When you have a globalized economy, it

11:10 | isn’t that globalization is bad,
obviously.

11:12 | It’s that there are effects that are
deleterious on local town or local

11:17 | communities.
But the second is whether it’s French

11:20 | shoring, on shoring or providing
incentives for American companies to be

11:24 | producing here at home for American
jobs.

11:26 | That’s the conversation we need to have.
And thirdly, because of how evil the

11:30 | Chinese Communist Party regime is at
Heritage, we are fully supportive of

11:34 | tariffs on China.
We are not supportive of tariffs across

11:37 | the board.
But we do understand that that is a

11:40 | valid conversation for us to be having
as opposed to what the political right

11:45 | in this country ten or 20 years ago
would have said, which is you can’t even

11:48 | talk about it.
We believe we need to look at the data.

11:51 | We need to look at the tax regime as a
whole.

11:53 | And we always need to understand that a
good, healthy economy flows first from a

11:58 | good, healthy civil society, whether
it’s Putnam, Connecticut or Lafayette,

12:02 | Louisiana.
And that’s something.

12:04 | Lastly, I want to ask you about personal
liberties.

12:07 | I don’t want to do the abortion debate
here on the air.

12:09 | We’ve been doing that for months.
And I know where you stand on this.

12:12 | You talk about it at length.
You highlighted trans as an issue in

12:16 | this campaign.
The Republican Party did and got a lot

12:19 | of result from some advertising in that
area.

12:23 | Are you focused on minors, on parents,
on schools, or are you focused on an

12:29 | adult who says, hey, I have
a different view of the world and myself

12:35 | than you do when it comes to things like
gender dysmorphia?

12:37 | Should an adult be allowed to do what
they want to do with their own body?

12:40 | From a policymaking standpoint,
especially over the next few years,

12:44 | we’re focused on minors.
But the reason that we at Heritage are

12:48 | so concerned about transgender ideology
is because it harms any human person it

12:54 | touches.
We love every human person.

12:56 | We believe in the dignity of every human
person.

12:58 | And it’s on those grounds that we think
even for adults, this is problematic.

13:02 | Problematic because they’re talking to
kids about it or they’re going to

13:04 | somehow infect other adults.
What’s your worry?

13:07 | Both.

WATCH: The Future Of Project 2025 in the Trump Administration

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The Future Of Project 2025 in the Trump Administration Transcript

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